Sisters Susan Smiley and Tina Kotulski were interviewed individually and on separate occasions, but with mostly the same questions. They are the adult children of Millie, a woman with paranoid schizophrenia. As children, they were not only left to care for themselves, but for their mother too. Millie's husband Allen left her after her suicide attempt, leaving her to raise her daughters alone. At the age of 12, Susan fled Millie's household to live with Allen's new family. Tina chose to stay. The sisters' documentary Out of the Shadow chronicles Millie's messy journey of recovery.
Susan is a Los Angeles-based director and producer of documentaries. Out of the Shadow is Susan's first independently produced film. Tina, now married for 17 years with three children, is a stay-at-home mom and is busy writing a book to coincide with the release of Out of the Shadow.
Voices: Your mother Millie has schizophrenia and this is the main focus of the film. What is most memorable about her in the film?
Susan Smiley: I think the thing I take away with me after editing the film for a year is her sweetness and her wit.
Tina Kotulski: Her recovery and to have her grandchildren in her life. They have been part of her life since our first son was born and he is now fourteen. But there were times when the kids just didn't get to see their grandmother and I didn't tell them why.
Voices: What have you learned through Millie about schizophrenia that one cannot learn from a book?
SS: That it's an illness that can embody a human being and this human being is full of all the life and colors that anybody is filled with. And I worked really hard in the film to portray Millie as a whole person, not a caricature of somebody who has schizophrenia, but as a full fleshed-out person with a history and with feelings, with an intellect, who has a life or who attempts to have a life.
TK: One of the most important or profound things that I have learned from my mother is that she has an incredible amount of beauty underneath her anger [that occurs] when she is suffering from a psychotic episode. When she was on a good and stable medical treatment, the beauty of her soul was exposed. The beauty of her personality came out.
Voices: Why did Millie agree to be taped, showing both her light and dark sides, chronicling both the highs and the lows of her life?
SS: I think when I started making the film, Millie and I had talked for a while about the travesties of the public health system and what was going on with her. And I told her that was part of the film I wanted to make and she was all for that. She wanted to eliminate that for other people. She was an amazing character because it was as if the camera wasn't even there much of the time…But during her dark, psychotic moments, she was so self-involved that she wasn't aware that there was a camera there at all.
Voices: Millie physically abused you as a child. Why is her well-being so important to you today?
TK: When I was a child I used to dream of having a mother and a father that were as loving as my neighbors seemed to be. The psychologists and psychiatrists that treat children who have been severely physically and mentally abused often put studies out saying that many of us would be incapable of having children and not repeating that abuse and having a successful relationship with a spouse. It was my dream to dispel that myth. I realized that the soul God gave me the day I was born was beautiful just as my mother's is. It was important for me to help my mother realize the beauty of her own soul.
SS: [Because] she is my mother.
Voices: Why wasn't Millie at the New York City premiere?
TK: Susan and I are still talking about what she'll be able to see in the film. I am not so sure that were Millie to see her dark side, that it would help her in any way. She doesn't remember when she is not doing well when she is not on her medication. Now that she's medicated and has a wonderful life, what good would it do for her to relive those bad times?
SS: And if we show it to her, we're going to do it in a private, family screening.
Voices: After Millie's suicide attempt, your father left her and you and your sister behind and started a new family. Why did he do that, knowing your mother was mentally unfit to raise children on her own?
TK: My father said in the interview that if he was going to save anybody, it was going to be himself. He couldn't deal with the embarrassment of being married to someone that developed schizophrenia.
SS: I think my father did not realize the depth of her illness. At the time there was no education about schizophrenia and though she had a lot of outbursts and they fought a lot, I think he summed it up to marital problems. He did think that she was emotionally volatile and I think he was a bit concerned about her ability to be a single mother, which was why he bought the house near my grandmother's house, so that my grandmother could look in on us to give my mother some support. And we had a place to go.
Voices: How does your father get along with Millie today? How often do they see each other or talk on the phone?
SS: No, they don't talk on the phone. They only see each other if I bring her over for Christmas. Their visits are only instigated by me.
Voices: How do those visits go?
TK: They're both cordial and Millie really enjoys being with Allen. She really loved Allen. Seeing Allen brings to Millie good memories and not bad.
Voices: Why don't your parents see each other more often?
SS: I think my dad struggles with my mother. I think he feels a lot of shame and he doesn't understand the illness or her, so he doesn't know how to deal with it. And he's not comfortable with her or in his own skin about or around her.
TK: My father doesn't want to. He really doesn't have anything to do with anyone from that period of his life.
Voices: But, Tina, you're from that period of his life.
TK: He's refused to talk with me. He hasn't acknowledged his grandkids. He doesn't want to have that much to do with that part of his life. I will not go down that path, but teach my kids that at some point they can call him, which they have, to talk with him. I think my father is scared to look back because of mistakes he's made and it hurts him when I'm in his life because memories creep up. That's how I see it, but I don't know if that's how he sees it. When you have parents, no matter how old you are, you still want to be able to call your parents, to hear kind words or to get words of advice. But I have never been able to have that with my father.
Voices: How does he feel about the film?
TK: My father told my sister that he didn't want to see the film at all. When he decided he wanted to see the film, he didn't want me anywhere nearby.
SS: He's really supportive. I think he's very proud of me for facing up to my difficult past. I think he thinks I made a wonderful film and he's proud of my ability as an artist. But I think a lot of these things are hard for him to remember.
Voices: Any closing remarks?
TK: I'm writing a book [titled My Own Shadow] that I hope to have finished in the next year. It is my own personal story of surviving a childhood that was abusive. I am able to see the beauty of my childhood because I have children myself and any parent, regardless of how healthy you are, raising kids can be the most frustrating experience of your life. I think my mother did the best she possibly could, being a single parent and having two kids, trying the best she could to make the most of her life that the disease took over.
SS: None other than what I think you're doing is amazing and it's just really great work and we need more of it, so thank you.